Monday, May 10, 2010

Is that the bunt sign, or is Coach crossing himself?


There’s plenty of praying in baseball. Any time a pitcher faces Albert Pujols with the bases loaded, you can bet he’s praying to somebody. But that’s a personal, private matter. Kids on a Little League team in Oregon didn’t have a choice. But one parent had the guts to say something about it. The AP reports that Mike Miles pulled his 10-year-old daughter off the team and complained to league officials that the coach, Chris Palmer, forced religion on the children by leading prayers and quoting Scripture before games. The response of Medford National Little League was to keep Palmer as coach of the Indians team and kick Miles off its board of directors. Now there‘s religious tolerance for you. Said Miles, who once was an assistant coach for Palmer, “All I wanted was for my daughter to sign up and play baseball this spring, not to have religion shoved down her throat. There’s a time and place for prayer, and baseball isn’t it.” Well said, Mr. Miles. Palmer tried to explain that the prayers were “not a religious tool” and were simply designed to “calm the team down, focus them and bring them together in unity.” Really? What it sounds like to me is, well, what comes out of the back end of a bull. Prayer is not a religious tool? Since when? Palmer also claimed that no one was forced to join in the prayers. Again, really? Do you remember being 10 years old? No 10-year-old kid wants to be the “different” one who turns his back on the prayer, or walks out of the dugout or complains. Palmer had what amounted to a captive audience for his religious show. And it’s just wrong. For one thing, it’s wrong to put a kid in the position of participating in one sort of prayer when his family might practice another religion, or none at all. Maybe next year, the Medford league should scrap the name Indians and call the team the God Squad. At least then, parents would know what to expect.

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39 Comments:

Blogger PRIguy said...

Even back when I was a more religious man than I am now, I would have been angry at the coach too. I have no problem with anyone practicing any kind of religion that they choose. But DON'T force it on me or my children. It's MY responsibility to introduce religion into their lives (or not).

He said it calmed the kids and got them to focus. I suppose. But can't the same things be achieved by effective coaching and leadership?

I don't get the whole praying thing in sports anyway. Not when a player is lying motionless on the field after getting hit the wrong way...I get that, but I'm puzzled by:

* Kickoff return players doing the sign of the cross before the ball is kicked.

* A batter crossing himself before a pitch.

* Any athlete pointing to the sky prior to any activity.

What are they praying for? A home run? 90 yards? No yellow card? Bringing God into these situations seems more to me like you're "using" Him for your advantage. How can that be right?

May 10, 2010 at 2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the intent of the prayer session was to focus the players' attention on performing well, why couldn't they simply have done the old "envision yourself hitting the ball" thing? Or would that be too Zen?

Asking for God's help is OK, although in doing so you are really expecting God to take sides -- let me win, let the other guy lose. Is that a Christian philosophy? And what if you pray but strike out? Why is god mad at you? Did the pitcher pray harder, or was god sidetracked watching the Pens playoff at the time of the prayer?

But I don't say stop praying -- just do it silently. As I've said before, the Constitution includes freedom FROM religion also.

May 10, 2010 at 4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax folks. God only hears the prayers of His saints, not the prayers of unbelievers -- except a prayer of repentance at conversion.

Much todo here about nothing. If only people would read their Bible to understand prayer, they would not make a fuss about these matters. It is clearly a null story, nothing to even write an op-ed about.

May 10, 2010 at 9:46 PM  
Anonymous x anonymous said...

Silly liberal pussycats will moan about anything I guess.

May 11, 2010 at 6:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These days, with all the crime and crazies out there, more people need to be praying. Silently? Probably
. Often? Definitely.

May 11, 2010 at 11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hail Mary! Full of grace. Let me get to second base... ;-)

May 11, 2010 at 11:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carumba! Don't throw out the old argument that God only answers prayers of his "saints." What about cancer-stricken "saints" who pray for help and wind up dead, still praying, while the "unbeliever" with cancer goes into remission? And don't tell me that sometimes the answer is, "No." And don't tell me that I'm not praying the right way.

And which diety should I pray to? If I'm a devout Muslim with cancer and Allah doesn't hear my prayer, do I switch teams and hope Christ is feeling magnanimous? Or maybe Krishna hasn't filled his quota for the year.

And don't tell me it's all some grand plan I won't ever understand in this lifetime. Since I have to live in this world with no surety of an afterlife -- especially if I have picked the wrong god -- this lifetime is all I have to understand things.

May 11, 2010 at 12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you think only liberals are PO'd about being forced to pray or have religion thrust in their faces? Go tell Rush Limbaugh he has to pray before he goes on the radio.

If he does, it ain't working.

May 11, 2010 at 12:24 PM  
Blogger Dale Lolley said...

I was coaching a game recently and while we were getting ready to take the field, one of my players stopped all the guys and asked them to bow their heads for a moment.
He said something along the lines of "Thank you lord for allowing us the opportunity to play this game and let us play well and not get hurt."

Since I'm assuming he wasn't talking to me, I guess, by your theory, I should have stopped him. I didn't and nobody complained. In fact, I thought it was a nice, team-building moment.

May 11, 2010 at 5:34 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

I'm far from a religious guy, but I do think there is some merit to what the coach is saying in terms of it being a sense of calm or focus before a game. At least that how I used to take it.

I also think there are far more ten years olds that care less about being 'different'. In fact, the only reason I know "The Lord's Prayer" is that I have memorized it for years playing Little League Baseball, and was recited from my days playing high school and college football before games.

I also remember clearly the coach saying back then that you didn't have to participate, which looking back I'm surprised to say considering it's been almost 20 years since I played.

I do understand the folks being irritated by this, and I also rarely see anyone look to the heavens after they look like Limas Sweed on a pattern, or whiff at the plate.

That said, I think the whole 'your forcing religion on my child' bit is a bit much. Would I think different of the kid that didn't pray? Maybe, but I would also think differently about the kid that would rather eat dandelions while in the outfield.

May 11, 2010 at 5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Silly liberals, why don't they complain about the speaker of the house telling the catholics what to preach in church?

May 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM  
Blogger Brant said...

That's a new one on me. Can you provide some details?

May 12, 2010 at 6:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The point here is the same as school prayer -- especially with kids: maybe not outright forcing of kids to take part in an activity, but making them afraid of being outcast if they don't. How many kids have the guts to say "I don't want to pray" when 38 other kids are supposedly praying? How many kids have the guts to stop a bully, thus tacitly particpating in bullying?

BURGHO08's comment is rather telling. Why would anyone think differently of any kid -- or adult -- who didn't want to go with the crowd?

I have no problem with individuality, as long as it's not disruptive. If not wanting to pray is disruptive, there's something wrong with the group, not the one who opts out.

May 12, 2010 at 10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why does everything have to be reduced to liberal vs. conservative? Oh I know ... it's because you don't have to think then. It's all black and white. Not everything has to be political.

In this case, it's a religious issue. One question is, did the daughter complain to her dad that she felt uneasy, or did the father exercise parental rights? If the daughetr was OK with the prayer thing, I wonder if dad didn't do her a disservice by yanking her and exposing her to all the repercussions of being seen as a troublemaker.

May 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I assume our anonymous friend's comment about Nancy Pelosi refers to her statement that she feels catholic clergy should preach in favor of immigration reform. It's not like she's trying to pass a law making it mandatory. Pelosi's catholic, and she has the right to express an opinion. I think immigration reform fits in pretty well with Christ's "greatest commandment" to "love one another."

Does that make Christ a liberal?

May 12, 2010 at 10:45 AM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

I recently went to a friends' funeral. Again, I'm not very religious (if at all, but too lazy to even be considered atheist).

I was asked to be a pallbearer, and went through an (sad to admit) painful funeral, full of bible readings, hymns, and some beliefs that were borderline crazy in my view.

I know this isn't a similar situation to praying before a ballgame, but of all the things I think we need to teach kids, it's TOLERANCE. Some folks may believe something different than you. Or it's okay to be different if you believe in something.

I think parents are losing sight of that, instead of being offended. I would even be willing to wager the kids at the end of the day don't even care as much as the parents.

May 12, 2010 at 1:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BURGH08: I know what you mean, but "tolerance" is opne to several definitons. If you mean allowing people of different beliefs or faiths to believe what they want,I agree. ButI once had my eyebrows raised by an Episcopal minister who, in prefacing Bible reading, defined tolerance as "putting up with other religions that you know are wrong."

"Wny should we be tolerant," he went on, "when we know we're right?"

He then continued to denounce pluralism and anyone other a card-carrying Christian. Not very ecumenical. He seemed to forget that Jesus was a Jew.

But no matter how you define it, tolerance and the ability to admit that someone else's viewpoint might be as valid as your own has been in damn short supply in the US for at least 10 years, and not only in religion.

May 12, 2010 at 2:11 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Well, that's unexpected! I actually agree with the intolerant Episcopal minister in some respects... "Tolerance" has come to be synonymous with "respect." It's as if simply holding a particular belief is enough for the rest of society to place that belief on equal footing with everything else. I'm sorry, but if you believe that God is going to cure your child of a disease without the help of modern medicine, I have no obligation to respect or even to tolerate that belief. "Why aren't you tolerant of religion?" - "Because it's mostly nonsensical fairy tale BS." And we must also be careful not to mis-ascribe the reason for intolerance... it's not because your perspective is different from mine, it's because your perspective is wrong. And of course, this goes well beyond religious matters...

May 12, 2010 at 3:43 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

I understand what you are saying about 'tolerance' and how one defines it.

I guess at the end of the day, I could care less if my coach or teammate engaged in prayer, or would reenact a clip from "Major League" where Pedro Cerrano had a shot of rum praising Jobu.

As long as doesn't stink when we took the field.

May 12, 2010 at 6:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Episcopalian minister had it right. When somebody makes a comment like the one posted here (complaining about the minister), that is telling about themselves. They are unable to embrace a truth that leads to a conviction, that, in turn, leads to an action. As a society we have become so soft on a convicted position. The post here is typical. In effect, the minister was saying, "I am excluding others, because I believe I am right, and here is why."

To say otherwise is to say that the minister holds no conviction, but rather is willing to believe anything. This is found far too often in our society.

Why? There is an equivalence made of holding a convicted position, over against being intolerant. Comments are made on this board, and others like it, that Christians are intolerant. And, in an effort to fortify their position, their next question, "Didn't Jesus say to love one another?" Yes, Jesus did make this statement, preached it boldly and without condition. But, that does not equate to being tolerant. Expressing love to another is not the same as being tolerant. If anybody thinks this not to be true, then they have not spent much time in Bible study.

The Christian gospel is a very narrow passage, "... small is the gate, and narrow the road that leads to life ..." There is no place in the Christian faith for tolerating views OTHER THAN what is expressly stated in the Bible. We, as people, like to add our own spin on the gospel message, "surely God will not exclude me, because he loves everybody." Sorry, this is not the message found in the Bible. It may be what some WANT to read into the Bible, but it is not there.

There are some matters that aren't important to the core issues of the Christian faith. Yes, on those points, tolerance is to be extended, "... do not offend a brother." But, on the core issues, there are to be no deviations, or polluting of the core beliefs (pluralism is one of those to be rejected). As a Christian, it is necessary to know what you believe, and why, and be ready with the apologetic when necessary.

For the poster who went to the funeral, if what was being done was so offensive, why did you choose to participate? It appears you have no convictions about what you choose to accept, or to reject. You just went "along with the flow." If rejection of the Christian message was so important, then your convictions would have asked you not be included. A Christian funeral is a celebration, a time of worship. You choose to be part of the worship experience. You knew that before you stepped foot into the building.

May 13, 2010 at 10:04 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

Anon: You may want to read my post again. Nowhere did I post that I was "offended" by attending the funeral. I also would argue that I have my own convictions, but part of them is to be TOLERANT of others to the best of my ability.

"Rejection of the christian message" wasn't as important to me as that I represented my own family by attending the funeral, or paid my respect to my friend and his closest loved ones.

I think my tolerance could be summed by your belief in your own words:

"There is no place in the Christian faith for tolerating views OTHER THAN what is expressly stated in the Bible."

If you believe that, then God Bless You (pun intended), if you are my kids coach, believe that and lead a prayer as in this example, no problems.

If you openly tell my kid that and try to cram that view down his throat, I'll gladly see if you follow the passage of "turning the other cheek".

How is that for conviction? :)

May 14, 2010 at 6:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All religions contain a kernel of truth. If god had wanted Christians to be the only ones in heaven, he should have done away with free will.

May 16, 2010 at 4:18 PM  
Anonymous bob said...

The decline of America is because of tolerance, in every aspect.

From God to the gays. If more Americans had a stronger back bones we would be better off.

Think about it! Border? We WAS tolerant. Welfare, tolerant. Civil Unions, tolerant. Commies in the White House, tolerant. Expanding jobless benefits, tolerant.

The tough person from the burgh, who speaks of tolerance is really a weak person. They done showed tolerance and for a person like me that shows me that you're weak. You don't stand for nothing. You are one of the types that say all the hypocrites are in church. Well atleast they stand for something.

May 16, 2010 at 7:10 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

"They done showed tolerance and for a person like me that shows me that you're weak" ???

Well, at least Jesus loves you Bob.

May 17, 2010 at 12:16 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Be careful not to confuse "strong" with "stubborn..."

If someone stands for something that is not correct, that's not better than someone who doesn't take a solid position due to not knowing enough to do so.

May 17, 2010 at 12:20 PM  
Anonymous Bob said...

Be careful not to confuse "strong" with "stubborn..."

If someone stands for something that is not correct, that's not better than someone who doesn't take a solid position due to not knowing enough to do so.

I standby the 10 Commandments. That makes me strong and 99.9% of the time right. Cause you don't have a back bone you're are going to rattle off some George Carlin crap.

Only a chinless, shmuck would say something like "If someone stands for something that is not correct, that's not better than someone who doesn't take a solid position due to not knowing enough to do so."

You're not just questioning my faith, but everyones. You sound like one of those gutless atheist. I bet you never did anytime in the service. From what I can tell, you sound like granny and grandpap put you thru college. Not knowing that you was a atheist shmuck. I going to go out on a limb here and say that you never held a job until after college. Did you ever take time in your college years to send a package to a soldier? A thank you letter? I bet somebody bought your first car for you. I have a nickname for shmucks like that!

May 17, 2010 at 1:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Without tolerance you wind up basically with a United States populated by white Anglo-Saxon Protestants who use slaves to do the heavy lifting. Not a country I want to live in. Think about it and you'll see that if someone down the line hadn't been tolerant of one of your ancestor's foibles, you might not be here. Not everyone can be right. but tolerance enable us to live together.

May 17, 2010 at 1:41 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

"They done showed tolerance and for a person like me that shows me that you're weak."

They "done showed" it, huh?

"Well at least they stand for something."

Using that argument, one could take the same extreme route you do. After all, Timothy McVeigh stood for something. Ahmadinejad stands for something.

They also fall under your guise of not being 'tolerant', 'standing for something', etc.

I would tell you to think about that, but something tells me you can't jump over the parameters already set for you.

May 17, 2010 at 1:43 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

"I standby the 10 Commandments. That makes me strong and 99.9% of the time right. "

I don't see how that makes you strong... if anything, it makes you lazy. You just take a list of perceived sleights from a few millenia ago and don't have to do any real work in deciding what is "right" or "wrong." Not to mention that the list is reflective of a petty and short-sighted god... Number's one through four are examples of pointless self-aggrandizement... Don't worship other gods, don't make pictures of god, don't speak poorly of god, take sunday off... Whew! Glad we covered that! Back to raping kids and torturing animals, I guess...

"Cause you don't have a back bone you're are going to rattle off some George Carlin crap."

I have no idea what this means... I'll chalk it up to you being (probably) old and senile.

"Only a chinless, shmuck would say something like "If someone stands for something that is not correct, that's not better than someone who doesn't take a solid position due to not knowing enough to do so."

You're not just questioning my faith, but everyones."

I have an average-sized chin... and yes, I am absolutely questioning your faith... I question the faith of anyone who puts more weight in magic and myth than anything substantive and real...

"You sound like one of those gutless atheist. "

Atheist, yes... gutless? I don't see how the two are related... but then again, causal relationships aren't generally the stronghold of the feeble-minded.

"I bet you never did anytime in the service. "

I bet you've never worn yellow socks with green shoes! Hey, I can say random and pointless things, too!

"From what I can tell, you sound like granny and grandpap put you thru college. Not knowing that you was a atheist shmuck. "

They must have done it wrong... since I'm paying back 90,000 dollars in student loans and all... You need to work on your being verbs... Oh, and my family is a delightful mix of casually religious and atheist folks and we all pretty much know what the others' belief systems are.

"I going to go out on a limb here and say that you never held a job until after college."

You'd be alone on that limb... I got my first job at 15. At 16 I started a job (full time through high school and college) and now I work for the company that owns that company. Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you weren't never much a fan of no book lernin' no how.

" Did you ever take time in your college years to send a package to a soldier? A thank you letter? "

No, I didn't... Do they need something that I have? What should I send them and why doesn't the military provide them with that? And a thank you letter? Sorry bro, that's a little weird.

"I bet somebody bought your first car for you."

Wow, you just aren't very good at getting stuff right, are you?

"I have a nickname for shmucks like that!"

Yeah? I have a name for schmucks like you, too...

May 18, 2010 at 8:12 AM  
Anonymous Ret. MASTER SGT BOB USMC said...

I know that name.... right! You two are the biggest yeller bellied shmucks in SW PA.

You two chinless,atheist cowards! Pick up a weapon and join the fight boys. I hear the commie in the YELLER HOUSE wants queers in the military.

I bet you two line up at the airport to spit on real men when they come home from the war. You two smartie pants wouldn't ever have the rocks to speak to a real man like me with that tone. Hide behind a piece of paper and your 90,000 dollar colege loan. You shmuck never even had enough nerve to write and thank a soldier for the freedoms he fights for. You just abuse them. Don't worry when your childeren grow to be yeller bellie clones of their parents you will get it. When the panty waste you call offspring has a hard time at school cause all the other kids pick on them and they have no back bone, I want to be the first one to tell you they got it honest. I rather speak and write the way I do, then to walk around this earth with a weak mind, body and soul. I'll tell my "under educated" grandkids not to tease the panty waste.

" I can turn a jack, I can lay a track, I can pick and shovel too.. hmm mister college boy can you tell me what that piece of paper can do for you?"

May 18, 2010 at 10:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I fail to see how not holding a job until college, serving in the military or sending cards to soldiers has anything to do with faith or being right. And this is precisely why I seldom engage in discussion of religion -- it always turns into an argument about which side is right, and the side that thinks it's right thinks it is the ONLY side that's right.

The 10 Commandments? A good set of common sense guidelines. Maybe following them makes you right 99.9% of the time, but if you've ever blown off church because you were tired or because you had something else to do, you've had another god before "God" -- and that's a violation of Commandment #1. An 18-year-old girl told me 40 years ago that the 10 Commandments aren't so much a set of inviolable rules that, if observed, guarantee a spot in heaven as they are a list that shows how impossibly perfect you'd have to be to approach God. I think she had it right.

Moreover, true Christians understand that Jesus reduced the 10 to two when asked which is the most important commandment: "Love God with everything you have. Love your neighbor as yourself." Why is this so hard for Christians to remember? It should be apparent to non-Christians. And atheists should understand loving your fellow man.

I heard a Christian pastor say just two weeks ago, "If you're a Christian who thinks Christianity is about being right, you're in the wrong religion. Christianity is about love. Do we want to be known as the religion of being right all the time, or the religion of love?" That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I was raised Christian but it never sat well with me. Not because I think it's goofy but because ever since I was old enough to form an opinion about such things, I haven't believed that any god worth worshiping would limit "salvation" (if that's what you believe in) to only one sect -- and, at that, a sect whose members can't even agree on how to practice the faith. After 50+ years, I still haven't heard or seen a thing to change my mind about that.

I don't know if there's an afterlife. On the chance that there isn't I'm treating people well in THIS life -- not in the hope that doing so will get me into heaven, but because it's just the right thing to do. Even chinless, atheist draft dodgers who have never sent a postcard to a Marine in a foxhole should appreciate that.

After all this discussion of tolerance, I still don't know how to define it. The original post was about a kid being pulled from a team because the team prayed and his dad didn't want that for his child. Well within rights for the father of a 10-year-old. How that evolved to a discussion of faith and foxhole letters is a greater mystery to me than is transubstantation.

May 18, 2010 at 1:39 PM  
Blogger BURGH08 said...

Bob-For someone that proclaims to be a Christian, your posts prove you don't practice what you preach.

All that church attendance, and still hateful and intolerant of others.

How sad.

May 18, 2010 at 5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look like the Marines have been experimenting with hallucinogenic drugs again.

The few, the chinned, the Marines.

May 18, 2010 at 10:56 PM  
Anonymous Bob said...

You seem to think I'm a Christian! I see ignorance still runs wild here in SW PA. Just maybe... I might be a Jew?

I've spent more time in a war zone then I ever have at the rears! I am the product of sissy college boy society. I often wonder how fair it was to send men and women to the war zone 3-5 times and others get 90,000 dollar college loans. Do you get it yet? So the whole time you was in college, others spent that 4 years busting the bad guys in the head.

There are men, we know who we are and then you have sissy boys that get pissed when somebody gives God a shout out. For real? See if college sissy boys knew how fragile life is, and how short it could become, they wouldn't moan about the coach crossing himself.

I wanna take you on a little trip. Lets go back 60 years here in SW PA. Do you think it was better or worse? Did we have herion on every corner? OR did we have church going people?

My family will always be taken care of. ALWAYS. I am worried about the society around them and the non values our society has. You know, if it feels good, then do it in the streets crowd. You know I never heard my grandfather use a harsh cuss word. Yet you go to any store you will hear the "f" bomb 20 times before you walk out the door. People with droopie pants ect.

If you think prayer,church or you local temple is the demise of the American people. I want you to hear it from the old gunny, there are more people that believe then don't. If you are a chinless atheist, you are the minority!

If you pay taxes, then you know where I am coming from. 60% of the people pay taxes. The other 40% doesn't. Is it fair? There is two major wars going on right now. The only people that has sacrificed anything are the military families! Which most of them are religious! Hmmmmm... college boys who bitch about the coach crossing himself, or a battle harden Marine that is a little nuts cause those college sissy boys didn't have the stones to help take the stress off by taking a tour! AMEN!

May 19, 2010 at 11:18 AM  
Blogger Brant said...

Gunny, what's coming out of your mouth smells a lot more like what comes out of the back end of a bull. I'm an atheist, but I'm also a military veteran (peacetime) who used the G.I. Bill to go to college (not a fancy one) while also working full time and starting a family. Not everyone who disagrees with you is some limp-wristed, ivory tower liberal atheist. Also, our entire country has suffered to some degree because of the war George W. Bush started in Iraq. Those on the homefront didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, but we're paying, nonetheless. And finally, maybe it's just my reading between the lines, but you sure sound a homophobe and a racist.

May 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM  
Anonymous Bob said...

Brant since your a remf, I will explain what a sissy boy is. I think to be pk I should have said metrosexual. The racist part I don't understand? I don't care if you believe or not, when the majority is religious, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

I never heard anyone bitch about the Muslims ( the ones that stand in times square and preach hate to the American public as they walk by as seen on tv) building a Mosque across from the WTC. I never heard any bitch about the memorial they want to build in the field up the road that represents the heathens.

"ivory tower liberal atheist"

I'm glad you put those two words together.. liberal atheist. Ivory tower is far fetched! Most dems are poor. Factory workers, minorites,coal miners, teachers, illegals ect. Sure there is some rich new world order type that say they are dems. Yet they are GLOBALIST! Just like Rep. most of them are hard working people too.. they work hard and wants everyone to work hard to make OUR Country better. You take the AVG WORKING CLASS DEM that makes under 100k a year and the AVG WORKING STIFF FROM THE RIGHT that makes less then 100k a year, you will have the same person most of the time.

I'm center. I'm a fence sitter and I don't care what people think of me. Call me names I don't care. I think the American public is starting not to care about the name calling. I think the lady in AZ signed a fine law. Tell me why it's okay for CALI to sign state mary jane laws, and the federal law says no, but the feds will not enforce the laws? ARE YOU A POT HEAD? Do you agree with Cali but not AZ? Hey go hiking on the Iran border. I bet you fall into a black hole. Come to America get health care, food stamps, free education, and you might get to steal 100 i.d's! AMEN!

May 19, 2010 at 3:14 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Well, Bob, I'll never be mistaken for a metrosexual. Oscar Madison, maybe. ;-) I think you make some good points, including the need to tackle the illegal immigration problem. The Arizona law is clearly not the answer, but when the federal government, i.e. Congress, is too pathetic and cowardly to tackle the issue, what are the states to do? Another big culprit in this is the business sector that hires illegal immigrants with little threat of punishment. If you start cracking down on those who hire illegals, that would be a step in the right direction. I would support some sort of guest worker program, but I think those that hire the guest workers would have to be paid the same as an American worker would, in order that companies or ag businesses couldn't hire foreign workers cheaper than Americans. I'm not saying I have all the answers. I have to study this issue more. But clearly something has to be done. And we all might die before the spineless waste products in Congress do it.

May 19, 2010 at 6:44 PM  
Anonymous Bob said...

The Arizona law is clearly not the answer.........

Say what? Was that milkhead Lindsay over again? The AZ law is the right law for the time. If you took every stinking last one of the illegals and deported them, what do you think would happen? Fat lazy bastards might cut their own lawns? The milf next door might clean her own pool? Farmers would have to pay a living wage to Americans? Food prices go up?? PEOPLE WOULD PUT IN GARDENS! America is broke and broken. The only thing that is going to fix it is hard work. Hey someone has to tell Tommy and Sally that they might not be college material, only our finest go college, the world needs ditch diggers also. Go to a trades school. Hey in the real game of life not everyone gets a trophy at the end of the game.

I hope AZ shuts off the power grid for CA. CA is vast scum land. They want the illegals, gangs, drugs, and that goofy speaker of the house. Here is your green intiative! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR BIG FAT UGLY MOUTH IS NANCY PELOSI & BERRY SOETORO ACT! If the GOV OF AZ signs a bill to kill the power to Cali, that should be the name of the bill. LETS SEE THE GREEN JOBS!!! LOL HA HAHAHAHAHAH

hey delta, look out your window!
- AMEN!

May 20, 2010 at 11:27 AM  
Anonymous x anonymous said...

if the feds get to choose what laws to follow, then what should the rest of us do? stand for something or die for nothing. taxes? what would happen if nobody paid taxes till the feds enforced all the laws?

1. You would find out that the feds have to many laws.

2.unemployment would go down to 4%

3. Our deficit would shrink? you betcha!

No more amnesty. Regan is much to blame for the illegals as is the Dems. NO MORE! Go home! We should only take the brightest. We have enough ditch diggers. Only if our ditch diggers got paid a livable wage! We could afford that if we lowered the capital gains tax, less titty suckers on welfare with drug test. Cut spending across the board cause most GOVT agencies, well, most of them fail anyway!

Why should county workers, besides the ones that put their lives on the line, cops and correction officers suck the titty of the tax payer forever!? Shouldn't teachers and court clerks work as long as my father? A member of the VFW and blue collar worker for 45 + years?

Maybe I'm punch drunk. I don't know. Only in America does a teacher get to keep their job. Plus pay raises. As society falls apart around them. What changed?

Why are teachers some of the best employees of the county, yet our counties fail!?

What is the pay scale for a coal miner at ten years vs. a school teacher at ten?

May 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM  

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