Thursday, August 6, 2009

Tough questions


The news came down today that four more U.S. Marines were killed in Afghanistan. This time, a roadside bomb did the damage. And the AP reports that the pace of deaths, if it continues, will make August one of the deadliest months for American troops since that war began. We lost 44 of our people there last month. We all know the background. We went in and started kicking behinds after the 9/11 attacks, but we essentially abandoned the fight in Afghanistan in favor of an ill-conceived war in Iraq. After more than 4,000 of our troops were killed and tens of thousands more wounded in the Iraq war, we turned our attention back to Afghanistan. But in the meantime, the same evil elements who engineered the 9/11 attacks had regained their strength. Reuters reported this week that it had obtained a threat assessment map developed by Afghan and U.S. security officials that shows nearly half of Afghanistan is at high risk of an attack by Taliban or other insurgent forces, or is under "enemy control." And that map was developed BEFORE a major surge in violence ahead of this month’s Afghan elections. There’s even a growing insurgent presence right outside the capital, Kabul, which rebels hit with nine rockets earlier this week, the first such brazen attack in years. The U.S. has been pouring thousands more troops into Afghanistan in an attempt to make up for the neglect of the mission during the Iraq war, but we have to question whether this is reasonable and prudent. Certainly, the "surge" in Iraq would be considered a success, but that's still a short-term gain that is being maintained by a continuing presence of more than 130,000 American servicemen and women. And what happens when, under a U.S.-Iraq agreement, we withdraw the vast majority of those troops by 2011? Virtually no one disagreed with the original decision to invade Afghanistan. We were attacked, and we responded against those responsible. But cleaning up Afghanistan requires troops – lots of them, and for a long time. Simply bombing them back to the Stone Age isn't much of an option when they've barely progressed past that point anyway. So, at this point, the same questions that were asked about the Iraq war need to be asked in regard to Afghanistan. What are the prospects for lasting success? How long are we willing to have tens of thousands of our troops in Afghanistan? And, most importantly, how many of our people are we willing to see maimed and killed in the process?

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88 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, this is a tough one. Afghanistan can't be abandoned to the Taliban, especially when one of its neighbors has nuclear weapons and a none-too-stable government, but I don't think there's the stomach to increase troop levels, especially after Iraq. This is a question for those highly-paid analysts in the Pentagon.

--Brad Hundt

August 6, 2009 at 3:23 PM  
Blogger Scott Snyder said...

Why would we expect that Afghanastan or Iraq would be any different than any other wars we've fought in the last half century or so. There is always a lingering period of unrest and a need to commit troops for "peacekeeping" for years after a war is officially over. The only place we ever pulled out of quickly, Viet Nam, is where we decided that we just quit. That hung our former allies out to dry. War is not a drama that is wrapped up quickly like some television mini-series...it is a lengthy commitment.

August 6, 2009 at 5:36 PM  
Anonymous the anonymous one said...

War? What war? You mean the United Staes of America is at war?

Most previous wars the whole country made a sacrifices. These wars you talk about, only the troops and their families have made sacrifices, or have they?

The market went wayyy up and then it went wayyyyyyy down, and it came to rest around 9200? What is different today then it was before 9/11? Your dollar is worth a $hiTload less. Sound familiar? Ask the USSR.

If you want to win the war, you have to be willing to become the bad guy. I know it sounds silly, winning a war!? We pride ourselves on not killing the innocent, our enemies know this. So they will fight in the day and run back to their huts at night and sleep with the innocent. Here in America, if you habor a wanted fugitive you go to jail too.

So before we bring troop levels up to 500,000 in Bedrock so we can scare the hell out of Wilma and Betty as we hunt Fred and Barney, we have to decide if we want to win or just die out as a nation in a quigmire like the USSR.

It took 9 years for the Soviets to loose 14k troops. Afghan's lost 1 Million. Kill ratio, Soviets won. For the mujahideen it was a victory cause they lived to fight in a civil war with the PDPA, and they are still here to fight us.

So if we tuck our tails and run now, it will have to be fought again in another 20 years. Maybe not by the US, maybe China?

If it is possible to kill the mujahideen off, then re-educate the rest I say strike hard move fast. If not get out and let China have a go.

August 6, 2009 at 8:19 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Good points there. I would also note that regarding the wars we have fought in the past half-century, the common denominator, aside from the initial incursion into Afghanistan, is that we had no business waging them in the first place. I'm speaking primarily, of course, of Vietnam and Iraq.

August 7, 2009 at 6:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a police action -- like Korea & Vietnam. Where does Terror live? Where is it's capital city? We will never win a "war on terror" because we can't drop two A bombs on it. Did we learn a thing from Vietnam? No, or we wouldn't have gone into Iraq. Apparently we didn't learn thing in Iraq, either. There is no shortage of terrorists. Getting the US involved in an unending "war" that drains our economy and demoralizes us is exactly what terrorists wanted, and Bush gave it to them. It took us almost 20 years to get out of Vietnam. That leaves 12 more years in Afghanistan.

August 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brant, Your assertion is false that 'we should have never been in Iraq in the first place'. Those planes that flew into the towers didn't have Afgani flags flying. They were funded by multiple countries, heads of state and numerous Islamic leaders. History will prove that geographically, politically and militarily Iraq was the perfect place to sow the seeds of democracy in the Middle East. And that is GW Bush will be a top 15 President and you will write left leaning blogs posts.

August 11, 2009 at 7:54 AM  
Blogger Brant said...

George W. Bush wouldn't be in the top 15 U.S. presidents if there had been only 15 presidents. Also, most of the terrorists on board those planes were Saudis. Why didn't we bomb the hell out of Saudi Arabia? And you can sow as many damn "seeds of democracy" as you want. Good luck getting them to take hold in Iraq and remain in place after we're no longer propping up the government with 130,000 of our troops.

August 11, 2009 at 8:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem with sewing seeds of democracy is that once we leave, the natives will trample the crops. Bush would be No. 1 in the list of "Presidents who oversaw the decline of the US."

August 11, 2009 at 11:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HERE IS THE DECLINE OF THE UNITED STATES.

OBAMACARE:

It's outlined in sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.

The brown shirts are coming!!! TIME FOR YOUR WEEKLY INSPECTION!

August 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"snitch czar" is going to be next.

what is sad, the left wingers can't put 2 and 2 together!

Czars, extreme socialized programs, home inspections, family visits from your local family organizer...ect

I love to serve my servatude! Berry Jong Il wants to turn this nation into N.K. I hear Berry will be meeting with Kim Jong Il for pointers soon, wonder what Bill Clinton gave up for the two girls now!

August 11, 2009 at 11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills."

Thank god -- someone needs to tel our kids about thuis because their parents sure as hell don't.


Did any of you paranoid fools whining about socialism and brown shirts even live through WWII and the Cold War?

August 11, 2009 at 1:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keep Government Out of My Uterus.
Say NO to Government funded health care.
Medicare-Broke
Medicaid-Broke
VA- Broke
How can you want this?
Insurance is broke lets fix it with RED TAPE.
No way.
Annie Oakley

August 11, 2009 at 6:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there such a thing? A perfect parent? Does my child fit your childs needs?

You know in the UK, they are starting a program where newborns go home with cameras installed in the home so if the parents do something wrong they know who to visit?

No you are blind. You don't want to learn. You don't want to see the truth, a dem won, he is on your side who cares right? He don't care about you. He doesn't care about me. He wants to change America! I say leave it alone.

I have an idea for you, a little homework. Instead of watch cbs or nbc and abc for your nightly news, turn it on the FOX Network @ 5pm. Then later on in the night turn it on your nbc or cbs for the nightly news. See if they even cover half, or speak of half of the stuff that Fox covers. Fox's ratings dwarfs all the other cable networks for a reason!

August 11, 2009 at 6:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because FOX News provides a right view along with a left view they are considered Right wing. The Letie Commies can't see fair and balanced out of their red glasses.

August 12, 2009 at 7:11 AM  
Blogger Brant said...

I really haven't gotten the feeling that those who are devotees of Fox News are really very much interested in anything being fair and balanced, just from talking with them. I don't watch any of the networks’ news or talk shows, but I do know, from my limited exposure to them, that Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage are flaming horse's behinds.

August 12, 2009 at 10:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage and Brant Newman are flaming horse's behinds.

August 12, 2009 at 11:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's freaking amazing to see all these people showing up at the town hall meetings, saying no we don't want your health care, and the dem's don't care! The rooms are packed, they have over flow rooms packed and atleast 1000 people outside all saying hell no! yet they are going to give it to ya.... LOL!!! DEMS ARE OUT OF TOUCH! BERRY'S RATINGS 49%!! I heard a brother on CNN the other night say " socialism is the new "n" word" give me a break. Why do the dems always use the race card!?

August 12, 2009 at 11:37 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

I think the fringe right is getting good at "how many idiots can we fit into a phone booth?" with the phone booth being a town hall meeting... It's funny, all the people I talk to while at work or otherwise going about my business don't see what the big deal is that these people are getting so worked up about.

August 12, 2009 at 11:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellipses, you work and socialize with morons, sorry. Every poll i've looked at more then half are against Obamacare.

August 12, 2009 at 12:47 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Why don't you cite some of those polls?

August 12, 2009 at 2:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got a better idea, why don't you look up the polls yourself!?
Cause if I posted Fox, you would say CBS.

Reform is needed. Not Obamacare. There are so many things that can be done instead of Govt run care.

August 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Well, let's hear your reform ideas.

August 12, 2009 at 2:43 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Yeah... My interest is piqued!

August 12, 2009 at 3:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My interest is piqued too. Let's hear it.

Chuck

August 12, 2009 at 6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. allow people to go outside their state to buy insurance.

2. people with pre existing conditions should have a care plan with the federal govt if they are dropped from their insurance.

3. fix the fraudulent claims with medicare

4. electronic records (that is 1/3 of the cost when you go to the doctors office)

5. Doctors tend to order more test then necassary due to the fact they might get sued. Maybe the federal govt could the doctors and their malpractice insurance.

there is tons of things that we could do besides making our federal govt brunt the whole cost

August 12, 2009 at 7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

could help the doctors *

August 12, 2009 at 7:07 PM  
Anonymous nomen said...

Funny, the government option is pretty much off the table. All of these things you've listed are more or less what the democrats are suggesting?

Are you a democrat? A socialist? Are you one of the brownshirts?

August 12, 2009 at 7:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

funny i didn't list the death panels.

i don't remember saying send vistors to your house to tell you how to raise your kids.

i didn't say ration health care

you know there in pa 53% don't want Obamacare. I don't care what you get. I know you will not find me on the rolls!

The closest thing to eternal life is a Govt run program. Cause once you start it, it seems to never die. - Ronald Reagan

The first step towards socialism is gov. run health care. - Josef Stalin

Lets see, Obama made us proud owners of GM, large stake holders in most of the major banks, wants crap and tax, tax the soda pop that will fix everything and now OBAMACARE. That is your brownshirt. Election time is coming up real fast, I bet the rep will gain many seats. Obama will be a lame duck first time around! O by the way republicans don't get a free pass, they haven't listened to the American people either. Think about who the military supports. It might be time for a different party! I will support the man from Pittsburgh, Ron Paul!

I didn't notice in the bill of rights anything about health care.

- not Dr. Exekiel Emanuel

August 12, 2009 at 10:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder how many democrats in SW PA wants to see taxpayer funded abortions? Brant do you want to use your tax money for abortions? Ellipses? You might not be the woman getting the abortion, or the doctor doing the abortion, but would you not feel that you helped out in someway?

August 13, 2009 at 12:24 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

I really don't have much of a problem with abortion... In a public option health care plan, I would prefer that abortions were covered in the event that the recipient were raped, is underage, was impregnated incestuously, or whose health is endangered by carrying the fetus to term.

But it's definitely not a make or break issue for me.

August 13, 2009 at 6:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellipses, how about late term abortions or the welfare people that use it as birth control?

You know, I've read somewhere that Dr. Exekiel Emanuel supports late term abortions, up to two years of birth. Why would the President of the United States surround himself with a person as such!?

You know, I said it once. Have you ever seen an administration attack the everyday American like this administration? I think it was under the Joe the plumber blog. Way before the town hall massacres started! Here again they attack.

August 13, 2009 at 12:33 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Can you give me some examples of how the administration is "attacking" everyday Americans. And can you save a little of your outrage for people like Sarah Palin who are outright lying about what is included in the health-care legislation and trying to stir up hysteria based on pure falsehoods?

August 13, 2009 at 1:06 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

I don't have a problem with late term abortions since the vast majority of them are conducted under "legitimate" circumstances. Most late term abortions are performed when the mother finds out about a debilitating or severe birth defect or in cases where the mother is mentally ill and/or homeless and is either not aware of her pregnancy until late in the term or is not in a state of mind to realize her physical condition or the implications of it. When these women are discovered and treated, in their first prolonged period of lucidity, they often opt to abort their pregnancy.

As far as people using abortion as "birth control"... I think that practice is abhorrent and irresponsible. It is, however, rare enough that someone has multiple abortions that I would be willing to accept that a certain number of people will take this course and that the entire idea of health care reform shouldn't be upheld because a few sluts might overuse this provision.

I don't know much about Dr. Emanuel... he could be exceedingly qualified for the job... and just because HE believes one way or another, that doesn't grant him the power to project his belief into actual policy. He could believe that humans only need 8 fingers... that doesn't mean that he can dictate that we all have our pinkies cut off.

And on a final point... I have to echo Brant's question... I haven't seen ANYTHING malicious or subversive from the Obama administration yet... who are these people that are being "Attacked?"

August 13, 2009 at 1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know you two must have horse blinders on.

It started with Joe the plumber. Now they are attacking the mobsters that are carrying swastikas, you know the astro turf protestors? Turn in your friends at fishy @ white house.gov!? Only thing I see at these town hall meetings, besides the one Obama stacked in N.H. (fact), is seniors asking questions. I never seen one person with a swastika. Not a one. Funny thing is, I hope the dems keep attacking the avg American, best thing for us independents.

Yeah because the chosen one said it wasn't happening right after he said it you believe it. I get it. you two are stuck in the right left frame of mind. You follow someone that follows a platform, not someone that thinks.

August 13, 2009 at 1:44 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Barack Obama has attacked Joe the Retard... I mean Plumber?

Swastika on sign:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xeewKZ2fD0Q/SoFWLPlPGEI/AAAAAAAAAiA/PRzVK-pW-mk/s1600/s-FTCOLLINS-large.jpg

More:
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/2396/slide_2396_31501_large.jpg

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/2396/slide_2396_31502_large.jpg

David Scott's hate mail and office sign:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/cnn-airs-inflammatory-nga_n_258052.html

Furthermore, if you go to the link at whitehouse.gov where you are asked to report "fishy" health care info, YOU AREN'T ASKED WHO TOLD YOU THE CRAZY STUFF.

It's like you are making up scenarios in which the government could kinda sorta be attacking individuals and then claiming that it IS happening...

August 13, 2009 at 1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

futhermore, if you go to www.fishy blah blah blah, just forward your emails... like that doesn't have your name on it?

I would check David Scotts hands for paint! Maybe a child in the area? Cause I really don't know to many adults that would risk going to jail over a painted sign.

That is the first i've seen of the lady with the Swastika on a sign. There is always atleast one nut. Nancy GOOFY eyed Pelosi didn't have a problem with poster and signs of Bush as the Joker in her own backyard, posters of Bush being Hitler or wanted posters of Bush as a war criminal. I'm not standing up for Bush, I thought he was a burn out. Yet why didn't Pelosi bitch about that? It shouldn't matter what they have on a sign as long as they are peaceful. It is in the Bill of Rights to Assemble! Peaceful protest! I don't like it when code pink went to UNITED STATES SOLDIERS FUNERALS to protest Bush, but it happened. Yet you are in denial that Pelosi attacked the avg American. Atleast when the burn out was attacked, he laughed it off and said "ain't americer great yeehaw!"

August 13, 2009 at 2:48 PM  
Anonymous CHUCK said...

Why does the democraps always use the race card?

If you are against Obama policy your are a racist.

Socialism is a code word for the "n" word.

The teabaggers are just full of racist.

Joker sign of Obama is racist.

Don't you understand it's trick to get us to fight?

August 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Joe the Plumber was only too glad to be a pawn in last year’s election and continues to be a willing participant in public affairs. Don't waste your sympathy on him. What we are seeing with the health-care legislation is a systematic program of misinformation and outright lies. And if that doesn't work, why not resort to just shouting down the other side to cut off any meaningful debate? It's ridiculous.

August 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Huffington Post is an American liberal news website and aggregated weblog founded by Arianna Huffington and Kenneth Lerer.

I think that lady with the sign was a plant. Just like Obamas N.H. town hall meeting.

August 13, 2009 at 2:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brant debate? Are you fricking kidding me? They are holding these town hall meetings, people are coming out in record numbers telling them "NO WE DON'T WANT IT" and they are saying back " YOU WILL GET IT! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU, YOUR TOO STUPID TO KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU. THE GOVT WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU! NOW SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP".

Our leaders are so out of touch with the American people it's not funny. It's time to impose term limits on all those crooked bums.

I tell you what, I will back the Obamacare plan when our elected leaders get on the same plan as the rest of us. If it's so fricking wonderful, why don't they jump on it? Brant tell me, why won't our elected officals jump on this same plan? It's fricking great! Get on it!

August 13, 2009 at 3:06 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

For the record, I don't really care one way or the other if someone has a swastika on a sign or not... you have the right to make retarded comparisons... lord knows, there were plenty of Bush-as-Hitler signs for the past 8 years... I posted the links to prove that in fact, there are people at these protests comparing Obama to hitler and his administration to Nazis.

For being such rugged individualists, you guys on the right sure are some think skinned pansies... my god, you'd think someone shot their dog the way these fruit cakes are crying and causing a fuss at the townhall meetings...

August 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

"Brant tell me, why won't our elected officals jump on this same plan?"

The "public option" is only a PART of the reform bill... it's like Social Security in that it provides a minimum level of insurance. They are touting the fact that you don't have to drop your current insurance if you don't want to... so why would you require them to drop theirs? That's like saying that FDR should give up all of his investments and live ONLY on social security... If you have better insurance than the bare-minimum public option, by all means, use THAT...

August 13, 2009 at 3:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There isn't even a bill that is ready to vote on. So how do you know? You can't use smoke and mirrors on me. That is one reason why Obama is having a hard time pushing a bill. Cause the mofo isn't even finalized.

Look, I'm going to type this slow so you can read it better.

If the govt has a public option, millions of people will drop their health care plans. Who is going to make up for the loss at your insurance provider? Health Insurance cost will skyrocket!

There is 48 million uninsured Americans. Throw them on the rolls without adding any new doctors will cause long waiting lines. FACT. That will lead to rationed health care. FACT. SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Why does Canaduh have the highest death rate of cancer patients in the world? Cause they have to wait 8+ months to start treatment? If that is what you want, get you some.

Obama doomed himself when he compared UPS,FEDEX and the Post office. Want it screwed up? Let the Govt touch it. Next time your dl is up to be renewed, don't go to Waynesburg to get it done, go to Pittsburgh, now while in line for 4 hrs pretend you have a broken arm and that you are at the hospital.

August 13, 2009 at 3:26 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

They are holding these town hall meetings, people are coming out in record numbers telling them "NO WE DON'T WANT IT" and they are saying back " YOU WILL GET IT! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU, YOUR TOO STUPID TO KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU. THE GOVT WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU! NOW SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP".

You must be watching different town meetings. I've heard no one say anything like what you're claiming to the people attending these events. It's the ones in the crowd who are ranting and screaming. And no one - not a single person - is going to be forced to choose a public option. If you like your current plan, stick with it.

August 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

"If the govt has a public option, millions of people will drop their health care plans. Who is going to make up for the loss at your insurance provider? Health Insurance cost will skyrocket!"

So if the government offers a public option that saves me money and I choose it... and that makes your insurance rates increase... wouldn't you be stupid to not take the public option?

And wouldn't insurance companies try to undercut the public option on price so that millions of their customers don't flock to it? That's part of the marketplace, too... a race to the bottom as far as price is concerned.

"There is 48 million uninsured Americans. Throw them on the rolls without adding any new doctors will cause long waiting lines. FACT. That will lead to rationed health care. FACT. SUPPLY AND DEMAND."

That only puts a giant neon arrow in front of our problem that blinks to say "Here it is!"

48 million people AREN'T getting the regular care they need. If 48 million people get insurance and promptly schedule a doctor's appointment, that far outweighs my having to wait a bit longer. As it is, those 48 million people are developing very expensive conditions right now, which is causing your insurance premiums to be higher.

You won't find much support in using the argument "If everyone had insurance, they might actually USE it!"

That's the point. The next step will be to incentivize more people to become doctors.

August 13, 2009 at 3:37 PM  
Anonymous chuck said...

Brant, I hope when the welfare mothers in Worshington County start using abortions as a form of birth control they start putting the remains in Buffalo Cemetery.

I hope your grandkids will be able to afford health care insurance and don't have to use the public option. Lets go over some other public options.

Work or public option welfare. Sounds wonderful.

Educate yourself or public option food stamps.

Follow the laws or public option go to jail.

I mean these all sound great so what could ever be wrong with the public option of health care!????

August 13, 2009 at 3:47 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Wow, that's not apples and oranges at all. ;-)

August 13, 2009 at 3:50 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

That was rather incoherent...

August 13, 2009 at 3:50 PM  
Anonymous nice said...

That's the point. The next step will be to incentivize more people to become doctors

are you kidding me?

August 13, 2009 at 3:51 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

What sounds screwy about that?

A campaign pledge of Obama's was to ensure that college was affordable and accessible to every child in America... if he tackles that challenge during the next 3.5 years, and more kids are able to go to good schools, you would necessarily have more of them going pre-med and then on to med school.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to become a doctor? There is a HUGE opportunity there.

August 13, 2009 at 3:56 PM  
Anonymous sweet said...

A campaign pledge of Obama's was to ensure that college was affordable and accessible to every child in America..

are you kidding me?

He wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class either!

Crap and Tax. Soda Tax. Health Care Reform Tax.

I wanna know when you look at Berry do you see a halo around his head? I mean the man has never lied on a campaign pledge right?

I love it. I think you might get it one day.

August 13, 2009 at 4:50 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Hey, if we get a step or two closer to single payer health care, I will be a happy panda.

August 13, 2009 at 4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah Ellipses, suck the govt titty. Nice.

August 13, 2009 at 7:09 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

It's not like I'm not willing to pay for it... I'd be willing to see my taxes increase by a considerable amount

August 13, 2009 at 7:15 PM  
Anonymous Not a Union member or part of the mob!!! said...

I want you to read a little.. get back to me on this... in this you will read about:

EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:

1. This section amends the Social Security Act

2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”

3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.

4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.

5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.

6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.

7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318


and

EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:



1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code.

2. Anyone caught without acceptable coverage and not in the government plan will pay a special tax.

3. The IRS will be a major enforcement mechanism for the plan.

and: MY FAVORITE ON THIS IS NUMBER 6

1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.

2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government “option.”

3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.

4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.

5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.

6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.

Please Brant and Ellipses.. read on


http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm


I know it's crazy to read!

August 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hard to argue with facts. I get it.

August 13, 2009 at 9:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

almost 4 hrs later... nothing?

August 13, 2009 at 11:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5 hrs... you get a stfu! both of you. now go out and vote for ron paul.

August 14, 2009 at 12:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brant, did you ever do time in the military!? We all know Bob's blinkers are too bad to go... what about you Brant? Remember, you have buddies that read this...they will tell on you if you lie!

Tell us how big of a chicken hawk you are. Or do I already know? Did I stack that question!?

August 14, 2009 at 2:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i wanna point out something... brant and bob write on the blog all day at work... while I am on vacation.. stated in a early blog.

so they play all day everyday.. and want to suck off govt titties.

Nice! They don't give 110% at work and want something for next to nothing. SWEET.

You both loose. You must work so hard for your company that you have no time to write on a blog.

You both are no better then the walfare moms getting abortions.

August 14, 2009 at 2:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you both lose*

August 14, 2009 at 2:09 AM  
Blogger Brant said...

Unlike the real chicken hawks like Cheney and Rumsfeld, I served in the military. I am not a combat veteran, but I was proud to be in the Army. And by the way, I write and maintain the blog FOR my company. It's part of my job. By the way, to one of the earlier posters, I like what Ron Paul has to say. It's like Republican fiscal conservatism and personal freedom without all the Jesusy stuff that has crippled the Republican Party. As for the health-care reform measure, like anything else the government is involved in, it has its good and bad points. My criticism is of the people (yes, like Sarah Palin) who spread hysterical lies about the legislation rather than just state the real parts of the measures that they disagree with. To them, it's better to make up total bullcrap about "death panels" and the like, or to scream like nutcases at a public meeting, than to engage in a substantive, meaningful debate.

August 14, 2009 at 4:26 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

I apologize for going to sleep at 10pm... I will try to stay up later for you next time.

August 14, 2009 at 6:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah, steelers played... and you went to bed... and brant has hair.

August 14, 2009 at 8:11 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

Brant has hair on his mouth

August 14, 2009 at 8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hows come you two didn't have anything to say about the bill???

It's sitting there in black and white... with a bunch of little nasty secrets.

nothing?

still for it?

August 14, 2009 at 8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i bet you two never even read it before I posted it... did you ?

did you read any of it or did you just lead around by the collar?

August 14, 2009 at 8:16 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

You didn't post the bill... you posted some garbled outline of something that may have once been a bill...

Here's a pdf of an ACTUAL bill... http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

August 14, 2009 at 8:21 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

I went and did some math research... apparently, you can't give 110%. 100% is the absolute maximum.

August 14, 2009 at 8:51 AM  
Anonymous Billy Bob said...

Ellipses, you know the death panels that wasn't in there...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2

well they took them out.

how can you take something out if it wasn't in there?

Look, they have be caught with their pants down and Biden doing great lip service...how many more times do you have to be lied to?

I want you to come work for me! You take so much...

August 14, 2009 at 12:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from the 60's wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

August 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

They removed the provision about end-of-life counseling for one reason: because people were too damned stupid to think for themselves and instead listened to numbskulls like Sarah Palin who were spreading lies and hysteria. Even the Republican co-sponsor of a measure on end-of-life counseling, Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia, said it was “nuts” to claim the bill encourages euthanasia. So, the nuts win, and people who might have gotten assistance in paying for such help will now get stuck with the bill.

August 14, 2009 at 1:52 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

To the last anonymous poster: It's not exactly a surprise that Ronald Reagan would side with big-business interests over what might have been the best interests of the average citizen.

August 14, 2009 at 1:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brant I think what you meant to say was

"it's a no wonder that Ronald Reagan would side with freedom and liberty"

Did you listen to the full clip?

start around the 6 min mark atleast and listen to the rest of it. Go ahead, listen to it.

August 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

somewhere out in the Northwest... a lady had some form of cancer, the medicine was $40 grand for treatment, the state run program wouldn't pay for it... but they would pay for the $5 pill that would kill her.

I should have paid more attention to the story to have more facts ..

Is that the kind of death panels Palin was speaking about?

August 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

No, Palin was speaking about a totally innocuous program that would have done people some good. As for the Reagan clip, I promise to listen to it in its entirety when I get a few minutes. Might be tomorrow, but I'll get to it.

August 14, 2009 at 2:13 PM  
Anonymous chuck said...

I like the point Reagan made about the govt telling the doctors how much they can make and where they can live. Too many doctors in that town, you can't live there we need you over here. He also points out that AUTO MAKERS are behind socialized health care.

So if you want to be a doctor, you have to live a socialized life? That should make all the college kids sign right up for med school.

Wait, if Govt can do it doctors, it will soon slide your way too.

August 14, 2009 at 2:19 PM  
Anonymous Marty said...

Reagan said something that stuck in my mind there, "socialism will never work in America, but if you cloak it and call it liberalism people will let govt infinge on their rights little by little".

August 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Outta the 47 million that isn't insured in America, how many are illegal's? 13 million? How many of the 34 million rather buy a new truck then their own insurance? How many are between the ages of 21-35 that just don't care?

I think at the end of the day, when all the numbers are in.. there is about 6-7 million Americans that can't get on a Insurance plan or afford it. Even if the govt starts a new plan for those, it will be broke in 8 years, cause the number will swell with time.

We shouldn't provide health insurance to illegal immigrants. If they don't have the money when they go to the hospital, they don't treated. Why should we provide illegals a comfort? They ignored our laws.

For anyone that disagrees with me, I think they should look up Mexico Immigration Laws. You will look at it differently.

I'll list a few for you.

Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights

Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.
Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.
Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.
Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.

August 16, 2009 at 8:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

guess brant didn't like reagans clip, most socialist don't.

August 17, 2009 at 4:41 PM  
Blogger Brant said...

Finally got to the Reagan clip. It certainly was evidence that after 45 years, the conservative wing of the Republican Party (now the only wing that's left) hasn't changed its script at all. Fearmongering, unsupported generalities, vague statistics, apples-and-oranges comparisons, anti-poor and middle class positions and a pro-big business bias were as evident in Reagan's speech as they are in GOP speeches today. Somehow, despite Medicare, there's been no Soviet-style forced relocation of doctors. And if Medicare was the slippery slope toward the total socialist takeover of America, it's sure taking a long time to slide down it. And doctors losing their freedom to make decisions? That was a laugh-out-loud moment. The insurance companies and trial lawyers have done more to emasculate doctors than a government program ever could. And I guess it was inevitable that Reagan would wrap himself in that grand old flag and invoke the Founding Fathers. I almost expected to hear "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" piping up behind the old actor. But it was perfect GOP palavar: If you're not with us, you're not a good and decent American. Finally, I'm really surprised that with the recent surge in birthers and tea-baggers and town hall screamers, some slavish Reagan worshipper hasn't dug up the old guy just to plant a wet kiss on his corpse. The very least a free-market capitalist could be expected to do is shear off his hair and sell little bits of it on Ebay.

August 17, 2009 at 7:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brant, you sure can spin!

But i've come up with this conclusion, I get it. Liberals can't think past today. I mean it makes so much sense. I finally understand why I we can't ever see eye to eye. You take everything at face value, and people like me always ask what is that going to look like in the future. You care about your paycheck and what it's going to do for you, and I wonder what is it going to do for my kids and grandkids.

You know you said that Reagan was in bed with the big corps. What about Obama in bed with big pharm? What about Obama being in the same sack as Wall Street?

If you're not with us, you're not a good and decent American. YOU MEAN LIKE NANCY PELOSI? You know, she called the peaceful protest UN AMERICAN at the town halls, but just a flash in the pan ago she was for the disrupters.

You should study some physcology, all these er's , tea baggers, town haller's, birther's... it's a trick. Personalize the attack, make them sound crazy... and run with it. Attack the people not the issue. Hitler did that also. Right before he set fire to his own ss headquarts.

You know, take this with a grain of salt. There is a huge possibility that for some reason swine flu will have a huge outbreak out this fall in America. (don't ever waste a good emergency) Martial law will take place, forced vaccinations, and a huge push towards Obamacare.

Our govt wouldn't ever ration healthcare unless under emergancy circumstances. Would you call a shortage of money a emergancy circumstance? Monetizing our debt,raising taxes, killing small bussiness, all would create a shortage of money. Enter rationed health care. Just a few of my ideas. Doesn't matter, Obama lied to you also, looks like the public option is going to be killed.

August 17, 2009 at 8:12 PM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

"If you're not with us, you're not a good and decent American. YOU MEAN LIKE NANCY PELOSI? You know, she called the peaceful protest UN AMERICAN at the town halls, but just a flash in the pan ago she was for the disrupters."

I am not a big fan of Pelosi... but what she actually said was:

"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. "

August 17, 2009 at 9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellipses, so the majority saying no over and over and over again is unamerican? You can only drown out the crowd with the majority. You know, I'll just say weak spin with you. WEAK SPIN!

August 17, 2009 at 11:43 PM  
Anonymous CHUCK said...

If Ellipses was a dog, he would be a minspin?
-chuck

August 18, 2009 at 6:16 AM  
Blogger Ellipses said...

It doesn't matter if it's 95 out of 100 people in a room shouting down 5 people trying to ask a question... or those 5 people screaming in tongues so that the other 95 can't talk...

August 18, 2009 at 6:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

only time i've seen the debates get nasty is when the left created a astroturf crowd of union members and acorn.

the american people are watching, and the left has screwed things up pretty bad. only the elections will tell.

August 18, 2009 at 7:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

half, aftere six mhts

stuck on stupid

August 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM  

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